**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 03, 2002

11:18:27 -->	Rantz (~rhoseley@user-112vgca.biz.mindspring.com) has joined #moo3
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11:18:32 <Oniz>	O_o
11:18:34 <Rantz>	morning kids
11:18:39 <[Beta]Lokust>	eh, was figuring about 2 weeks for production, on the merit that IG is one of the bigger distributors, but hey, what do i know
11:18:41 <Oniz>	mornin ma'am
11:18:48 <[Beta]Lokust>	Howdy Rantz
11:18:55 <kebzero>	Greets, Rantz.
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11:19:32 <Rantz>	how is everyone this am/evening/whatever time you are in?
11:19:52 *	kebzero feels lazy, otherwise fine.
11:20:06 <[Beta]Lokust>	good, if not for the fact that i'm at work..  the anticipation is defintiely building here though :)
11:20:25 <[Beta]Lokust>	how are things going there?
11:21:32 <Rantz>	crazy and busy, but exciting
11:21:39 <Wolfensteijn>	yeeehaa, pizza
11:21:41 <Wolfensteijn>	eeeya Rantz
11:22:08 <Rantz>	just thought I'd pop in and say hi before plunking down to do the final edit pass on the manual
11:22:12 <[Beta]Lokust>	as to be expected for crunch time i suppose 
11:22:15 <Rantz>	heya wolf
11:22:37 <Wolfensteijn>	the beta builds are done till the testing starts?
11:22:53 <kebzero>	The manual... What'll be in the European version of MoO3; an abbreviated version, or a version on cd?
11:22:55 <Wolfensteijn>	and how will the beta be distributed?
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11:23:05 <kebzero>	Greets, Guest.
11:23:13 <INA-Guest>	Hello room 
11:23:36 <Rantz>	keb we don't know, they are still figuring out the overseas packaging from what I can tell
11:23:51 *	kebzero hopes for BIG paper manual.
11:23:56 <Oniz>	ditto
11:23:57 <Rantz>	the Beta is being distributed on CD
11:24:01 <Wolfensteijn>	ditto ;)
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11:24:19 <Wolfensteijn>	Rantz> and the updates/patches for the beta?
11:24:30 <Rantz>	well, the version we're editing is about 150 8 x 10" pages with no art, screens or charts
11:24:37 <Rantz>	so you'll get your wish
11:24:47 <INA-Guest>	-whistles-
11:25:08 <Rantz>	and we're also discussing including an unpdated PDF of the manual in the game
11:25:10 <INA-Guest>	I guess its too late to have it in PDF on the game CD to save some trees huh?
11:25:15 <Rantz>	LOL
11:25:22 <INA-Guest>	ahh read my mind! 
11:25:27 <Wolfensteijn>	heh
11:25:30 <Rantz>	and there we go...
11:26:06 <Oniz>	There's a translating part
11:26:13 <INA-Guest>	How much game time have you been able to spend helping out with the Beta Rantz?
11:26:19 <Rantz>	we're still adding little ui controls and stuff based on playbalance feedback, so by having a .PDF version it'll be completely up to date
11:26:20 <Oniz>	You haven't translated it to german and french yet, right?
11:26:46 <Rantz>	Guest I spend about 3-5 hours a day playing and making notes.  Some days less, some days more
11:27:12 <INA-Guest>	Sounds like a hard life! :-)
11:27:24 <Rantz>	the Art Dept has been doing some MP beta stuff as well
11:27:39 <Rantz>	it actually is this weird combo of really hard work that is fun
11:27:41 <INA-Guest>	On a LAN or net hookup?
11:28:10 <Oniz>	Hmm, do we need gamespy-arcade?
11:28:19 <INA-Guest>	brb
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11:28:25 <Rantz>	because there's pressure to make sure that for the new player, or the player not involved with the dev, that the experience they have is identical to the one you have in your head... 
11:28:41 -->	Ekon8089 (~Infograme@64.39.166.7) has joined #moo3
11:28:43 <Rantz>	Both LAn and Gamespy
11:28:53 <Ekon8089>	Ahh thats better
11:28:54 <kebzero>	Wb, Ekon. :-)
11:28:59 <Oniz>	But there is no ipx-play without gamespy?
11:29:00 <Ekon8089>	Thanks Keb
11:29:05 <Wolfensteijn>	ipx?
11:29:11 <Wolfensteijn>	why ipx?
11:29:14 <Oniz>	ah what is ti, direct-connect
11:29:18 <Rantz>	TCP/IP I think... hang on one second...
11:29:21 <Oniz>	yeah
11:29:56 <Wolfensteijn>	TCP/IP for local and internet, but you need gamespy to find other people to play with online
11:30:12 <Rantz>	just looked it up in the manual, you can also connectvia direct IP address
11:30:19 <Wolfensteijn>	at least, thats what I think
11:30:23 <Wolfensteijn>	nice
11:30:31 <Oniz>	But if we need not Gamespy to find players (a regular bunch), need we go through gamespy
11:30:35 <Oniz>	ah
11:30:36 <Oniz>	great
11:30:38 <Oniz>	\o/
11:30:47 <kebzero>	Goodie... Looking forward to see if OrionSector's MP Yellow pages will work out... :-)
11:30:59 <Rantz>	gamespy will help you find them, but if you have a specific IP addy, then you can enter that
11:31:06 <Oniz>	If not, Apolyton will do something propably
11:31:07 <[Beta]Lokust>	no ipx... ipx evil... had some really wierd stuff happen trying moo2 via ipx lan :)
11:31:32 <Ekon8089>	Why the close affiliation with Gamespy in particular Rantz?
11:31:39 <Ekon8089>	-not that I mind really-
11:31:48 <Oniz>	heh, I do
11:31:55 <[Beta]Lokust>	could be that they are about a block away from each other
11:32:09 <Ekon8089>	ahhh that would explain a great deal then
11:32:21 <Rantz>	We like the folks at Gamespy, they are very professional, and their game search stuff works well and intergrates easily.
11:32:38 <Rantz>	Lokust yeah and they are about 2 blocks from us :)
11:32:38 <Oniz>	But, doesn't the program cost if one wants the whole version?
11:32:38 *	[Beta]Lokust used to write for Gamespy, did the e3 2000 preview of moo3...
11:32:40 <Ekon8089>	About a good a reason as you can get
11:32:43 <Wolfensteijn>	aaaaah, great pizza, too bad it is finished now
11:33:05 <Rantz>	aha Lokust!
11:33:19 <Wolfensteijn>	so you were the one who wrote that piece of junk
11:33:21 <Wolfensteijn>	j/k :P
11:33:34 <[Beta]Lokust>	got to meet some of the dev team at e3 then, was cool, be hard pressed to remember who all it was though :(
11:33:48 <Rantz>	Oniz there are various levels... I think the top tier costs, but honestly i couldn't tell you the pricing model.
11:33:50 <Ekon8089>	Rantz: Can you tell us anything about how you liked multiplayer? 
11:34:18 <Rantz>	Well, at E3 it was Cory, Myself Bill Fisher and Alan 
11:34:42 <Rantz>	Ekon I'm glad we incoporated the MP turn timer!
11:34:43 <Rantz>	lol
11:34:59 <Wolfensteijn>	MP turn timer?
11:35:01 <Ekon8089>	ahh now more 15 min wait for ship designing huh? :) 
11:35:04 <Rantz>	one of the artists was spending too much time on each turn and we were all 'hurry the hell up!'
11:35:19 <Rantz>	Ekon, not if you set up the timer.
11:35:19 <[Beta]Lokust>	i got a moo3 t-shirt then :)
11:35:30 <kebzero>	What's the min/max for the timer, if activated?
11:35:33 <Rantz>	(we had it set for two minute turns)
11:35:49 <Rantz>	I think 30 minutes is max...
11:35:54 <Oniz>	have you use predesigned fleets in mp then
11:35:56 <kebzero>	Speed chess, only much, much more complex. :-)
11:36:01 <Rantz>	let me see if I have the details handy
11:36:02 <Oniz>	have to
11:36:02 <Wolfensteijn>	hehe
11:36:18 <Ekon8089>	-this should be good!-
11:36:26 <Wolfensteijn>	I certainly hope so
11:36:36 <Wolfensteijn>	and I do hope they get it released the day after my birthday ;)
11:36:55 <Rantz>	1 minute to 16 minutes
11:37:07 <Rantz>	that's the range for turn times if the timer is on
11:37:13 <kebzero>	Thanks.
11:37:19 <Wolfensteijn>	but a 2 minute turn is quite doable?
11:37:31 <Rantz>	Wolf yeah esp. in early game
11:37:40 <Wolfensteijn>	and in the end game?
11:37:42 <Ekon8089>	how long does it take you to design a ship with the new interface Rantz? 2-5 min?
11:37:50 <[Beta]Lokust>	that 2 min doesn't include battles i presume?
11:38:05 <Rantz>	2 minutes 200 turns in requires well managed use of your time... lol
11:38:11 <[Beta]Lokust>	heh
11:38:44 <Oniz>	6h game
11:38:45 <Rantz>	Ekon, depends on how much you futz with details... I think you can do a good design inside of 2 minutes wasily.
11:38:45 <Oniz>	nice
11:39:01 <Ekon8089>	that sounds quite good then
11:39:05 <Wolfensteijn>	wasily? heh, nice word :P
11:39:55 <Rantz>	LOL yes Kandinsky
11:40:07 <Wolfensteijn>	hehe
11:40:14 <[Beta]Lokust>	is there any way that players could vote or otherwise agree to change the time limit if all are feeling pressed for time?
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11:40:33 <Ekon8089>	Rantz has the macromanagement balance worked out the way that you hoped a couple of months back?
11:40:40 <Oniz>	or can the game-host do it if wants
11:40:49 <Rantz>	One time timits are set at the beginning, i believe there is not a way to alter it
11:40:58 <Rantz>	Ekon, yeah it really has
11:41:25 <Rantz>	I'm really please with the micro/macro management tools
11:41:33 <Rantz>	pleased that is
11:41:39 <Ekon8089>	then in the 2 min or so for the turn, as you mentioned above, your primary concerns are.. who do i take over? in what order.. etc?
11:41:48 <Ekon8089>	what have you found that makes you think the most?
11:43:17 <Rantz>	depends on the player's style... personally  my focus becomes the political intruige stuff, the deals and backstabbing, and using the macro tools to manage planets, and the sit rep to keep an eye on trouble areas
11:43:18 <Ekon8089>	-I know .. loaded question but interesting..-
11:43:18 <Kepab>	Oh. Hi, Rantz.
11:43:29 <Rantz>	hello Kep
11:43:54 <Ekon8089>	In multi do you have the ability to make your own deals with players verbally in a chat?
11:44:06 <Lokust>	will political victories be as viable in multiplayer as they will be in single player?
11:44:07 <Ekon8089>	or does everything have to go through the diplo screens?
11:44:41 <Kepab>	How easy will it be to learn the basic things in running an empire in MoO3, Rantz?
11:44:55 <Rantz>	Ekon we're looking at whether to have it in or not... due to the 'workaround' nature that it imposes on the political/diplomatic game
11:45:17 <Lokust>	I kind of like the idea of everything having to be posed through the same menus you'd use with AI players
11:45:40 <Rantz>	Lokust, yes in some ways, more so because you are actually dealing with other people
11:46:08 <Rantz>	Kep, I think if you've played Moo or moo2 it'll be really straightforward and easy.
11:46:23 <Lokust>	ok, good, things like winning via a council vote would never have happened in moo2.  one of my concerns is seeing cool features from single player made less useful or overpowerd in multiplayer
11:46:47 <Rantz>	the balance issue is making sure that it is easily grasped by the new player without having to spend three nights reading the manual prior to playing
11:46:50 <Ekon8089>	how complex can the deal making get? -if you can answer- In Moo2 espec in the early stages very often I would have non aggression pacts for a certain amount of turns.. Ie 100 so that I could stabilize myself 
11:47:12 <Lokust>	for example our house rules for multiplayer were no omniscient and no repulsive, and with no omniscient we were forced to say no stealthy ships, because it eliminated the best counter...
11:47:36 <Rantz>	Ekon, can you be more specific in your question?
11:48:35 <Rantz>	<---installing the new build right now :)
11:48:41 *	Lokust drools
11:48:51 <Ekon8089>	Rantz: in the diplo screen interface.. non aggression I would think is a standard "type" of pact to make/offer.. therefore will there be variables available to the players.. ie the pact is in effect "X" number of turns.. or can be broken with "Y" warning?
11:49:04 *	Oniz stabs Rantz
11:49:27 <Rantz>	Ekon, I'd have to look at the variables that are listed...
11:49:30 <Kepab>	In multiplayer, if the turn limit is low, can you for instance design ships while other players are taking their turns?
11:49:45 <kebzero>	Oniz, beware of the auto-feedback of the Exactocalibur...
11:50:00 <Rantz>	those are the kinds of things that are getting adjusted based on playbalance feedback, so I want to give an accurate answer
11:50:29 <Rantz>	Kep it's simulanteous turns
11:50:31 <Lokust>	while other players are taking their turns?  will turns be  in succession or concurrent like in moo2?
11:50:33 <Ekon8089>	I do appreciate that Rantz... thank you
11:50:34 <Lokust>	ok n/m answered that
11:50:48 <Rantz>	no, 'player a turn, then player b turn, then player c turn...'
11:51:03 <Ekon8089>	Sounds like the dip came out to be pretty rich 
11:51:12 <Rantz>	in a 32 empire game that would get hellish real quick
11:51:28 <Kepab>	So if it will be 2 min turn timer, for instance, you have to do all essential things in that time. When do you have enough time for ship design and more time-taking tasks?
11:51:29 <Ekon8089>	oh.. everything is consecutive not concurrent?
11:51:32 <Lokust>	that's what i was thinking, figured i'd have to take a week fof work to play 1 game :)
11:52:23 <Rantz>	Ekon, all players do turn one while the clock ticks down, then all do turn two, etc
11:52:46 <Ekon8089>	ahh good.. so it is concurrent.. had me confused there for a sec..
11:52:51 <kebzero>	Is that ticking clock visualized in the interface?
11:53:17 <kebzero>	...or should I keep a stop watch handy?
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11:54:06 <Lokust>	i would hope there's a timer built in if they are going to have the REAL time built into the interface, including alarms if you catch yourself playing past 3am :)
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11:54:51 <Wolfensteijn>	hehe
11:55:20 <Kepab>	Rantz, if the turn limit is set to quick turns, then when do the players get to think about ship designs and more time-taking tasks?
11:55:49 <Wolfensteijn>	they don't
11:56:56 <Kepab>	Wolfensteijn, is that sure? Are you really saying that it will be "no custom ship designs" in MP? 
11:57:38 <Oniz>	what if they could design fleets while waiting for other person
11:57:43 <Oniz>	what would be great
11:58:02 <Oniz>	Would give fast players a little edge
11:58:10 <Kepab>	But it was already said, that there will be no waiting (except maybe battles and such)
11:58:16 *	kebzero wonders why the room seems so silent...
11:59:12 <Wolfensteijn>	Kepab> no, I didn't say that, all I said is that with quick turns you just don't have the time think about your ship designs and other more time-taking tasks
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12:01:18 <Kepab>	So that's why it was so quiet; I got dropped again.
12:01:29 <Rantz>	Kep the players should tehen at the start of the game set the game to longer turns :)
12:01:31 <Oniz>	it was quiet anyways
12:01:41 <Kepab>	Ah, very well.
12:01:42 <Wolfensteijn>	Kepab> no, I didn't say that, all I said is that with quick turns you just don't have the time think about your ship designs and other more time-taking tasks
12:02:21 <Kepab>	Well, I guess that just raises the average time limits in most games then. :)
12:02:55 <Lokust>	or in a sense, it raises the difficulty for everyone
12:03:14 <Kepab>	Yes, that too.
12:03:41 <Rantz>	ok, gotta go back to working on the manual.  Hopefull there will be a web update today :)
12:03:45 <Rantz>	have a good one all
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