**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 9, 2003 13:32:16 --> kebzero (Infogrames@mp-217-205-63.daxnet.no) has joined #moo3 13:32:21 kebzero is here! 13:32:25 a lot quieter in here than I thought it would be... 13:32:30 Greets, all. 13:32:45 Enjoy the silence. Those moments tend to be rare... ;-) 13:32:57 true 'nuff 13:33:11 played any good games of moo3 lately, Keb? 13:33:29 It's the way the tide goes. The calm and storm take turns. 13:33:47 The game I've got going is pretty nice... 13:34:14 You have a savegame or does the ATL-TAB work well enough? 13:34:23 *ALT-TAB 13:35:25 Alt-tab... Not sure if I've ever used that... 13:36:15 Give it a try and give a shout if the game runs fine after that... 13:36:19 Regardless, I wouldn't be able to concentrate on the game while surfing... ;-) 13:36:51 --- ChanServ sets channel limit to 31 13:37:27 <-- Padre8 has quit (Quit: Leaving) 13:37:38 My problem would be more like the opposite. 13:37:42 real-time AAR!! 13:38:15 ? 13:38:17 Not a chance. 13:38:20 Oh. I get it. 13:38:41 I'll give you a cookie if you do it 13:38:46 * Worped pets his peglegged parrot. 13:38:48 --- Oniz gives voice to kebzero 13:39:12 or atleast give us some details on it 13:39:43 ie. are you waging wars or just expanding calmly and turtling 13:40:12 --> tramsan (~tramsan@t4o923p12.telia.com) has joined #moo3 13:40:50 More of the latter. 13:40:57 Hey. 13:41:04 Meep meep 13:41:06 I like having an extra 50% income from peaceful trade. 13:41:17 what race 13:41:18 * tramsan honks the fellow Swede 13:41:18 It fuels the warmachine versus the chosen few. ;-) 13:41:29 I like turtling. 13:41:32 Eoladi, as most of the time. 13:41:44 No rapid expansion with *that* race... ;-) 13:41:50 mm, what's the main difference between gas planets and normals 13:42:00 Terrain? ;-) 13:42:18 in productivity, goods, etc 13:42:29 Just to be obscure... all planets are treated equal, only differently by each species.... 13:42:56 Essentially, all planets have qualities such as mineral/biosphere richness, size and Planetary Specials. 13:43:17 bah 13:43:23 They also represent a habitability rating. Different species rate it differently. 13:43:30 but can the biggest gas planets pump up as many ships as normals 13:43:55 is ultrarich huge gasser as good as ultrarich huge nomra 13:43:57 normal 13:44:01 I.e. some gas giants rank "green" to "sweet spot" for Eoladi. Most tiny, radiated worlds rate "red 2". 13:44:34 how well do gasbags survive on gaias 13:44:36 Gas planets tend to have more room. More room tends to mean more infrastructure ( mines, factories, farms ) and people ( to run everything ). 13:44:46 excellent 13:44:46 Gaias don't exist. 13:44:53 Not technically. 13:44:55 well then 13:45:06 the biodiversity-richest planets 13:45:15 I'm always weirded by the term 'sweet spot'. It sounds like porn. 13:45:22 I *could* select the Humanoid filter and look for "Paradise" worlds, and give you an Etherean rating on that... But it'd be complicated. 13:45:35 Too bad. You'll see it often in MoO3. ;-) 13:45:40 :) 13:45:48 Then again, MoO3 *is* rated XXXXX. 13:45:53 Oh, yeah .. 13:45:56 That's pretty hot. 13:46:02 kebzero: when you play the eoladi, do you tend to look for those subraces, so you can populate the normal planets aswell? 13:46:20 Gasbags like bio-rich planets just fine. They're also able to make the most of 'em, being superior in Bioharvesting. 13:46:28 is it important for the gasbags 13:46:31 I *always* look for Magnate Civs. 13:46:37 Ah, can you put magnates in colony ships? 13:46:38 They can be *incredibly* valuable. 13:46:40 or only your own racE? 13:46:40 but can you cope without em 13:47:08 Especially as troops. My Eoladi can't fight in ground combats very well... 13:47:12 im full of questions today 13:47:14 Helps to have some "foreign aid". 13:47:29 Magnates in Colony ships? You can, but it'd happen automatically. 13:47:40 Majority of population on a planet goes in the colony ship, AFAIK. 13:47:41 ah 13:47:48 how soon do other races start converting gas planets? 13:47:57 ....which is why I was a bit puzzled by Rantz' comment last night. 13:47:59 and can we convert normal planets to gas planets 13:48:21 If I use Mrrshan-worlds *only* ( provided I found one or more ) to colonize, my empire would consist of Mrrshan in the end.... ;-) 13:48:32 sweet 13:48:32 You can, but you might not want to. 13:48:46 any of you played Star Control: brood war? 13:48:52 It takes a bit of funding to terraform a world that much - not to mention *keep* it there. 13:48:55 not starcontrol 13:48:58 Oniz, a bit. 13:49:03 starcraft 13:49:07 yes starcraft 13:49:10 Oniz, you should be ASHAMED 13:49:10 Cheaper and simpler to conquer a Humanoid settlement and use the bipeds. 13:49:30 one of races had that "charm"-thingie, to turn enemy to your own 13:49:42 So, it isn't really viable to destroy all gas planets like that and therefore hamper the gas bags. 13:49:43 when you took one of the drones, you could have two races units 13:49:50 I believe it was the Protoss... And it was "Mind Control".... ;-) 13:49:51 indeed 13:49:54 Oh, that. That was fun for a while. 13:49:55 Which was kind of asdf. :) 13:49:59 Dark Archon 13:50:02 that why I was thinking of the Multiplayer in moo3 13:50:04 The Dark Archon units. 13:50:08 if I play imsaeis 13:50:09 Dang. 13:50:10 <-- lost a fleet of Battlecruisers because of that once... 13:50:23 and my ally plays like Raas or something 13:50:36 kebzero: So you can't export a race from a planet you don't like? 13:50:36 you could easily give a planet of few to your ally 13:50:47 so each player could populate any kind of planets 13:51:09 That was awkwardly worded .. If I had two races on my planet and wanted to get one off peacefully, I can't transport them specifically? 13:51:47 I think it was stupid that you could send them to their deaths in moo2 13:51:50 any comments, from anyone? 13:51:53 The people move about on their own. 13:51:58 My comment: Face. 13:52:06 Even if I have a totalitarian regime? Odd. 13:52:18 Or, more importantly, a democratic one. 13:52:20 Or a hive one 13:52:23 Any of them will do. 13:52:24 :) 13:52:26 You can use a Migration point to draw people to certain locations, but that's about all you can do to control it, AFAIK. 13:52:39 Trust me; you'll *like* the migration thing. Seriously. 13:52:50 Hope so. 13:52:55 It's the main reason I want many, many Magnate Civs in my empire. They migrate quickly. 13:53:04 What does Magnate mean? 13:53:53 magnetic? ;) 13:55:06 Magnate according tou yourdictionary.com: http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/m/m0027800.html 13:55:14 " A powerful or influential person, especially in business or industry." 13:55:31 I'm not much wiser... 13:55:35 heh 13:55:43 <-- norrab has quit (Quit: Leaving) 13:56:11 The text blurb sounds odd to me too. I've learned to accept it. 13:56:19 That, and many, many others. 13:56:24 Hehe. 13:56:40 What does it mean in the game? 13:56:42 I'm still not clear on what many of the techs of the game actually *do*... The text blurbs aren't that informative for some of them... 13:56:44 so we have a linguistical horror on our hands? 13:56:51 We'll have to hunt one of the writers down and interogate. 13:56:51 --- ChanServ sets channel limit to 30 13:56:55 Off playing DoD, later ppl. 13:57:07 gimme ip to server 13:57:07 <-- Worped has quit (Quit: ) 13:57:10 Basically, a small settlement of some minor race, usually undeveloped, but with 4-5 pop points. 13:57:11 arr, damn swede 13:57:13 Why are Magnate races Magnates? 13:57:16 Makes for rapidly growing colonies. 13:57:24 Because they are. 13:57:30 They breed faster? 13:57:35 That's what it means? 13:57:39 are they all useful 13:57:53 Perhaps it's because "they're already influential on the planet when you get there", or something. 13:57:55 or is there magnate races that you don't especially want 13:57:57 I'd say so. 13:58:04 Not IMO. 13:58:30 If you want ground troops, I'd highly recommend seeking out a Rhea/Gargantuan world. ;-) 13:58:33 hehe, the humans could be magnate races if some empire from space would discover us 13:58:39 I have trouble finding those, though... 13:58:49 are they even better than ithkul shock troops? 13:58:57 I've found Darloks and Gnolams in just about every game I've played, though. 13:59:10 I'm not entirely sure, Oniz - but I'd say so. 13:59:29 do you use Gnomals as christmas-elves? 13:59:33 Mostly 'cause their general population is less rowdy. ;-) 14:00:04 IIRC Gnolams aid your (local) finances just a bit ( surprise, surprise... ). 14:00:09 Can you bomb a magnate civ out of existance before you colonize? >;) 14:00:22 Mmh. Now that would be interesting - imagine some frail space-faring race find us and pick us up to work as their employees as they travel through space. 14:00:31 have you found any elerians, and what the heck are they good for? 14:00:33 If I want ground troops to invade Cybernetik worlds, I might use Gnolam troops. They like the terrain better than my Gasbags, IIRC. 14:00:36 --- You have new mail (9106 messages, 9209756 bytes total). 14:00:58 kebzero: IF you don't have any other you mean? 14:01:12 Kepab: There've been a few books about that. 14:01:18 I read a not particularly good one. 14:01:24 If I don't have Cybernetiks, certainly. If I don't have Gargantuans, same. 14:01:50 is there any art on the gargantuans? 14:01:51 --- ChanServ sets channel limit to 29 14:01:58 Evil beach balls with tentacles had picked us up to use us against some bug creatures. It was written in Cold War times so part of the big plot involved the Russians and Americans coming to trust one another. 14:02:00 Rheas do good on all planet types? 14:02:21 The Magnates do not have any art, AFAIK. We've asked about it; think it's one of many things stored "for the expansion", if that. 14:02:30 mm 14:02:33 The point is, there's very few places where that art could be *put*.... 14:02:42 :) 14:02:42 "gargantua" sounds like some damn big spiders 14:02:51 played too much Final Fantasy's 14:03:02 Rhea do go in all form of combats. Their planetary choice is similar to Ethereans, IIRC. 14:03:03 Tarantula/Rhea, yeah. 14:03:04 Gargantuan tarantula. 14:03:06 Garganyua sounds like whatever as long as it's DAMN BIG. 14:03:13 Heavy Gravity, certainly. Not sure of their temp. preference. 14:03:31 are gas planets heavy-g? 14:03:43 Yeah, gargantua+hg seems fairly logical. 8) 14:03:54 Most are. 14:03:57 Not all. 14:04:01 Not quite. 14:04:09 Actually, it's more likely they are large if it's low g 14:04:09 gasbags favor heavy-g? 14:04:19 As their body structure would be under less stress. 14:04:26 Thus favouring larger strukture. 14:04:29 I was about to say that you are lucky that Toproq wasn't here, but Tiavals is taking his place. 14:04:31 Then again, since I play Eoladi, I only look out for the proper colour coded gas worlds... 14:04:39 heh =) 14:04:43 ;) 14:04:49 I'm slowly learning what planet skins are "good" for me. ;-) 14:04:53 you don't populate out-of-sweetspot planets? 14:05:04 Oh, I have to. Not enough sweet spots. 14:05:12 Pah, heavy gravity favours a heavier, more sturdy frame. Not stocky, sturdy. 14:05:12 Have only seen one natural Paradise world yet. 14:05:13 THE GERMAN ARE EVIL!!! 14:05:19 * ZenGonzMoO checks out his sweet spot. 14:05:22 I partly agree. 14:05:28 Colonizing Green 1s and 2s is entirely common. 14:05:46 It's when you start settling Yellows you know you're running out of good space. 14:05:48 well, ok, let's put it this way: The German include the worst people around... 14:05:54 "Don't forget to wash your sweet spot!" 14:05:59 ^^ 14:06:08 hmm, now that the game has etherean races, does Orion have any planets that are great for em? 14:06:11 "Wash inside your sweet spot, too." 14:06:19 Yes. Orion. 14:06:22 ;-) 14:06:34 They don't spread beyond the Orion system. Not voluntarily. 14:06:39 I suppose the orion system hosts only planets that are shweet to the orion :P 14:06:41 tramsam, perhaps so, but that means gargantuans aren't actually large. 14:06:50 but they can spread? 14:06:51 The higher the gravity, the less a creature should have mass. 14:06:53 You can "donate" worlds to 'em, but I think that only angers 'em. 14:06:55 Orion-system has only one planet? 14:07:08 I've never done it, though. No need to make my worst enemy even more powerful. 14:07:15 Tiavals: or the stronger endo/exosceleton 14:07:22 skeleton even 14:07:29 At current, the Orion system has a random 1-8 planets, like everywhere else. 14:07:34 hehe, you know what would be a bitch 14:07:42 Demak: True, but it's inefficient I would think. 14:07:47 Tiavals, it could. Then again, it could perhaps not. We just don't know. ;) 14:07:50 if some dude who was loosing the mp-match would donate all his remaining planets to NO 14:08:03 "Auch" 14:08:10 lol 14:08:11 That'd work, if the condition was "Sole Survivor". 14:08:21 tramsam, we can guess. If life works the same as in Earth that would be the case. :) 14:08:23 The NOs have a bunch of powerful ships. 14:08:25 "if I can't win, NOBODY WILL!!" 14:08:34 I've seen 'em toast AI homeworlds in one go. 14:08:45 Stupid AI, declaring war with the New Orions... 14:08:48 If I played against someone like that I'd beat the crap out of him/her in RL :) 14:08:52 "Auch" 14:08:54 Tia, but now we're talking moo, there it doesn't. =) 14:08:55 are NO good in ground-combat, or do they use magnate races? 14:09:03 tramsam, true :) 14:09:13 They tend to just take out the capital world, though. Haven't seen 'em burn the full civ yet. 14:09:18 They seem like creatures with high reflexes and poor toughness to me :) 14:09:26 hmm.... such lifeforms would without any doubt host some pretty interesting high-strength, low-mass materials... 14:09:31 NOs never use Magnate Races, unless you give them worlds with 'em. ;-) 14:09:37 oh yeah 14:09:39 Methinks they have given themselves high toughness. 14:09:44 but weren't they frail races 14:09:44 They don't colonize, remember? 14:09:55 so how do they succeed in ground-combat 14:09:58 'sides, the NOs have tech on their side through most of the game. 14:10:04 or is their tactic "glass em" 14:10:12 I don't know. I don't bother invading Orion on the ground. 14:10:13 lol, I'd think so :P 14:10:18 I just barbeque 'em from orbit. 14:10:27 have you ever tried? 14:10:29 ...but I've only attacked Orion two or three times. ;-) 14:10:35 keb, dude, you're testing the game, you should try everything possible 14:10:35 could become an interesting battle, that... 14:10:46 no offense tho 14:10:56 Oniz, some things take *TIME* to test. Building up a fleet to match the NO fleet, is one such thing. 14:11:04 Well, if you have defeated Orions fleet, you will PROBABLY be able to capture it anyway :) 14:11:30 First, it's a matter of climbing the tech tree. Then gaining access to Orion. Then building the necessary TFs. I don't want to go in there with less than ~500 ships, just in case. 14:11:40 this chat has been so full of info that it should be saved on dopefish's site 14:11:56 hmmh, I suppose destroying the NO will render the political victory useless/out of the question 14:12:06 The NOs basically build ships throughout the game. Their reserves are *formidable*. Give them time to mobilize, and you're in for a world of hurt. 14:12:17 Indeed it should go up on Dope's site. 14:12:33 In my current game, I've now taken the Senate Precidency seat... And expelled the New Orions from the Senate. ;-) 14:12:44 there has been more info than in the last 10 visits of Rantz/Chantz 14:12:45 *lol* 14:12:45 lol 14:12:50 heheh 14:12:56 how did they react to that? 14:13:02 yeah?` 14:13:08 That might actually be true... 14:13:16 does the AI tend to aggravate on people who propose the bills on them 14:13:22 The NOs? Like most things; they appeared not to care. 14:13:28 or are the bills proposed anonymously 14:13:29 LOL 14:13:31 Not that I really know. I lost contact with them at the same time. ;-) 14:13:45 but usually 14:13:59 *the view turns to massive NO fleet gathering at kebzero's borders* 14:14:00 See, diplomatic contact is either achieved by having settlements within two jumps of one another, or through the Senate. 14:14:09 if my neighbour is the klackons, I'm not in war with them but I do expell them from the senate, do they attack me? 14:14:26 "have them expelled" 14:14:27 They don't know me anymore, Kepab. Therefore, they can't declare war, nor bother to attack. 14:14:35 Eh. 14:14:36 say, if you're playing the ultimate diplomats, do you tend to get the new orions on your side? 14:14:40 I don't think so, Oniz. 14:14:44 'k 14:14:51 Take over a few of their worlds, OTOH... 14:14:52 Hrrh. 14:15:20 I've begun declaring war that way. First, bombard them a bit, invade a few border worlds, and pretend nothing is happening. ;-) 14:15:28 So, if some race is giving trouble, and you are able to do so, just expel them and your worries are over for a while? 14:15:46 You never really get the New Orions on your side. You can't order their fleets around to strike at your enemies. 14:15:59 wouldn't it be just dandy if the NOs would start a grand scale war against EVERYONE when they get the boot from the senate :P 14:16:07 can you invade worlds without having AI attack you immidiately 14:16:08 You *can* coerce the entire Senate to declare war on one empire or another - but that's not a guarantee anyone will attack. 14:16:13 You can. 14:16:33 sheit 14:16:34 It's all a matter of how good your relations are, what world you're attacking, how powerful you are, etc. 14:16:36 damn k3wl 14:16:51 I'm off, later. 14:16:52 <-- tramsan has quit (Quit: ) 14:16:53 diplomacy evolved ;) 14:16:53 I took over an Evon world that seriously bothered me. They haven't responded negatively since. 14:17:04 heheh 14:17:11 they wanted the world to go away? :) 14:17:12 hee >:P 14:17:15 I wish civ had that kind rate of diplomacy 14:17:20 The entire senate vs the NOs :) 14:17:20 The Tachidi got pissed when I robbed three worlds from them in rapid succession, though. 14:17:24 Might be good ;) 14:17:34 I was only avenging the fact they had bombarded a world of mine for many, many turns. 14:17:35 I hate it when AI builds cities in the middle of your cities, and if you conquer em, it immidiate war 14:17:48 When does the AI declare war on the NO's, and why? 14:17:53 why didn't you destroy the bombarders? 14:17:55 You might still suffer that, Oniz. There's no guarantee they'll ignore it. 14:18:00 I did. 14:18:10 I also took the world that built the bombarding System Ship. ;-) 14:18:21 but in civ, they do it even if you're huge, and they're small 14:18:21 It just took a while to build a fleet. 14:18:31 See, the Eoladi aren't exactly fast manufacturers... 14:18:32 :D 14:18:35 mean man 14:18:37 hmmh, was there any supply line abstraction or somesuch in spacecombat level. (I know there is on the gc) 14:18:50 ...which is why I have pitifully small fleets. OTOH, they're the best in the galaxy, tech-wise. 14:19:31 I'm not sure, Demak. I've never looked if the maintenance costs jump when you don't have a clear supply line... 14:19:44 oh well 14:19:49 It doesn't take an "at war" status to be able to blockade, though. 14:19:50 how many games have you played this far? 14:20:07 Any empire that doesn't sign a non-aggression treatment with me, risks losing a few border worlds... 14:20:20 hehe 14:20:22 also, isn't it so that you save a lot of cash by having few high tech over swarms of low tech? 14:20:24 ... as those border worlds tend to build system ships that blockade my worlds for no reason. 14:20:33 How many? I have no idea. 14:20:34 aggressive eoladi, w3ird 14:20:45 Only when I can afford to, Oniz. 14:20:53 hehe, true true 14:20:55 I don't have the ships for multi-front conflict. 14:20:57 I wonder how things will work in mp 14:21:08 have you tweaked your eoladi, and if so, how 14:21:09 I mean the senate, what is the use of diplomacy? 14:21:09 Luckily, my Ithkul neighbour has been incredibly passive versus me. 14:21:23 I play stock. 14:21:27 'k 14:21:52 --- ChanServ sets channel limit to 28 14:22:12 Diplomacy? Did I mention above 1/3rd of my financial budget comes from inter-species trade? 14:22:21 heh ;) 14:22:23 It pays off to be peaceful. 14:22:32 Inter-species sweet spot. 14:22:44 Let's not go there. 14:22:52 Padre8: For Unreal questions, type "/join #ut2003" (without the quotes). 14:22:52 --> Padre8 (~Infograme@adsl-66-138-140-185.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) has joined #moo3 14:23:02 what is kebzeros tactics in multiplayer games then, where the "inter-species trade" isn't that sure 14:23:10 So you've never had a problem with AI's that were very friendly to you suddenly declaring war, eh? 14:23:30 Good point... 14:23:47 I'd probably befriend all the AIs, and forge an alliance against you. ;-) 14:23:55 lol 14:23:58 :) 14:24:02 Not in the last build, Zen. 14:24:06 Arr, in 8player FFA without comp 14:24:12 say, have you been in a situation when there is peace galaxywide? 14:24:12 There's been a few snags, but those are fixed now. 14:24:27 Now, the AI seems to react quite reasonable. 14:24:31 or even 6 players + 2 comps, bordered by human-players 14:24:38 Never, Demak. Never. 14:24:48 As long as there are Ithkul around, that won't happen. 14:24:52 I thought so... 14:24:58 [MUAH-HA-HA] 14:25:00 well, if there is no ithkul to go around? 14:25:19 Then again, I've rarely seen the entire galaxy all at once - except on the smallest map. 14:25:36 My current game is a 3-armed HUGE galaxy, 16 empires to start with. 14:25:41 If you are strong enough to back it up can you maintain the peace? Expect AI's to stop warring when you demand that they do? 14:25:48 how long have you played? 14:25:49 I have yet to encounter everyone, let alone explore. 14:25:58 Five days, I think. 14:26:05 !!!! 14:26:06 in hours? 14:26:27 I don't think you can demand them to stop fighting, Zen. I don't think that's among the diplomatic options. 14:26:34 I'm not entirely sure, though. 14:26:35 :P 14:26:44 kebzero = !peacemonger 14:26:46 Frankly, I couldn't care less if my allies beat each other up a bit. 14:26:47 * Kepab thinks he will probably be playing the *small* galaxy 14:26:54 Txus: For Unreal questions, type "/join #ut2003" (without the quotes). 14:26:54 --> Txus (~Infograme@213-98-154-148.uc.nombres.ttd.es) has joined #moo3 14:26:54 --- ChanServ sets channel limit to 30 14:26:55 It only means I win. ;-) 14:26:56 I like to play Sheriff. 14:27:05 Not in hours. 14:27:08 moo 14:27:14 well, at least there should be a "stop warring them or I'm gonna kick your sorry ass to the next game" option 14:27:17 In hours... Hrm... Say, ~20? 14:27:28 and how much have you explored? 14:27:32 had any 50 hour games?� 14:27:34 If I was to go for Sole Survivor, I'd probably have to log at least ten times that. 14:27:43 hot damn 14:28:00 50-hour games? Probably. Not that I'd notice... I'm having fun when I play. ;-) 14:28:02 the longest game I have ever played was FF7, and I did everything possible in it, and it only took 60 hours 14:28:15 lol 14:28:21 Do you play all day, Oniz? 14:28:23 It all depends how detailed you want to control things, of course. 14:28:24 there was in moo2 14:28:27 the end game in MoO3 must be hectic.... 14:28:29 "Demand peace" or whatever 14:28:35 Zeng, duh, not on one go 14:28:39 If you keep clicking turn, the game goes by rather quickly. ;-) 14:28:55 Nightshade: For Unreal questions, type "/join #ut2003" (without the quotes). 14:28:55 --> Nightshade (Infogrames@h68-146-178-151.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #moo3 14:29:04 Oniz, how foolish :) 14:29:06 I just meant do you do alot of hours in one sitting. :P 14:29:11 I played it through in 20 or 40 hours, can't remember :) 14:29:14 Tiavals: in what way? 14:29:26 well did you get everything, do everything 14:29:38 and not save once? 14:29:47 Probably not. 14:29:52 As for the AI being dumb... I had an ally offering me a trade; one of my high-level techs for a low-level tech and one of their colonies. I sensed trickery, and searched out said colony. Its closest neighbour; an Ithkul homeworld. 14:29:56 I didn't look at any walk throughs I think 14:30:03